Enemies of Liberty are ruthless. To own your Liberty, you'd better come harder than your enemies..

Friday, May 25, 2012

We Stand Apart

I will be accused of divisive behavior for this post. I will be accused of having lost perspective. I'm sure there will be a few more accusations. I will not respond to them. I will not engage this topic further, in any venue.

I know the truth, and that is always enough for me.

Here's a statement I bet you never thought you'd see written by my hand: Mike Vanderboegh was right.

I'll wait a moment to let a few folks recover. OK...

Mike was right in his conclusion that Tom Baugh is a bad influence on the Liberty Movement. Mike was wrong about his reasoning, Mike was wrong to make up lies about Tom, but correct in his conclusion. With MBV de-throned there was a vacuum, and Baugh sought to return and capitalize.

I am going to discuss three people below: Baugh, AP and CA.

This is not about the Constitution. This is not about Restoration. This is not about personalities or anything except one single issue: Intellectual Honesty.

There was a kerfluffle over at WRSA last week, as most folks know. I limited myself to just two comments, both engaging only Concerned American. The reason I refused to engage Baugh and AP is because of details most folks reading that post could not know: The back-story.

That post at WRSA was never meant to be an honest discussion. It was meant to remove an impediment to an agenda being put forth by AP/Baugh and Crew.

I was that impediment. My position on Restoration is an impediment to the Baugh agenda. He claims "Restoration as a waypoint" is great, yet every action he takes is designed in contradiction to that statement.

It is not about Restoration. It is about honesty. Remember that.

I encouraged Baugh to speak and take part in the community at one point a few months ago. I changed my mind on that point very quickly, after a few email interactions revealed Baugh's fundamental nature to me. I found him to be dishonest and deceitful.

I went to TL's Summit in Mercer, planning to stay no more than an hour or so. I ended up staying much longer. I had hoped to see CA there. He did not attend. I had no idea Baugh would be there. Baugh requested an hour to address the group of 40+ Patriots, and it turned out to be an infomercial more than anything else. I discussed this at CA's place, no need to repeat here.

I took exception to several points in Tom's speech at Mercer, voiced my opposition (in his precious MeatSpace), told him to leave me out of the games he detailed. Then I went home. I never mentioned any of those details publicly or privately.

Here is what many of you probably do not know: A small group of folks who think themselves to always be the smartest men in the room deign to control "The Message" across the blogs of our community. This small group of bloggers, anchored and orchestrated by Baugh, decided to assign community blogs in a "Tier" system, a ranked hierarchy. Additionally, these folks deigned to determine which blogs would receive visitors based on their own value system. The intent is to sweep visitors into the proper "bin", according to the decisions taken by the smartest guys in the room.

It is a classic "Good ol' boys" system, a hierarchy of insiders attempting to control who succeeds and who fails, who says what to whom, based on "Their" desire to control "The Message".

In a community supposed to be about honesty, integrity, morality and Liberty, the mere hint of such reindeer games is offensive.

I had to piece together the information from Tom's speech at Mercer and a few other sources, because I was not "In the loop". I rather suspect that was deliberate, because folks know I do not play such reindeer games. In fact, my tendency is to crush them.

So, my position regarding Baugh is clear: He is the only person I have yet met seeking to personally make a profit from Patriots. His fundamental approach is based on manipulation and deceit (he calls it "Sales & Marketing"). I have zero use for him.

Now to AP: I stopped associating with Justin after a year and a half for a reason that is not part of the above discussion. I told him to go away. He persisted privately but until the thread last week at WRSA, had been silent publicly. At CA's place he chose to take a few cheap shots, which I had come to expect.

I have found that Justin will parrot whoever is in his ear at the moment. I have found that Justin will attack in public, yet only apologize in private. I have found, and anyone who has followed his blog for a while knows, his position on issues changes as frequently as the weather in DC. For a while we generally agreed on many issues. We disagreed on more than a few, including Judicial Review (which, as mentioned above, he attacked in public but months later and only in private admitted my argument had been correct). I have found that Justin will seek a coalition of support in private before he is willing to take any controversial public stand. I learned that over the MBV topic. He is a pack animal and relies on the security of a group before speaking up. I have told Justin most of this in email.

A year ago he contributed to III to Liberty and strongly advocated Restoration. About 2 weeks ago his parroting of Baugh's talking points culminated in his post abjectly refuting Restoration. Fine by me. He calls it "growth".

Here is what surprised me: Justin chose to parrot Baugh's erroneous anti-Constitution talking point that the Constitution is a morally corrupt document, and Restoration is not possible because it means a return to imposed slavery and a return to women as second-class status. With some folks I have learned he will excuse his public statement by privately explaining that the public dishonesty is justifiable because "...that's what our enemies will say about Restoration..."

Sorry folks, intellectual honesty is a fundamental requirement. When you choose to surrender honesty, you may win the argument (because of deception) but you lose the right to preach morality to anyone.

I do hope Justin recovers his compass.

Concerned American: This is the one that hurts my heart.

That CA chose to publicly support the erroneous assertion regarding Restoration and slavery/women was the most profoundly disappointing aspect of that entire ordeal for me. I would have bet my life he would not have done so.

Remember, this is not about the Constitution or Restoration or anything except the honesty of debate among us.

For the sake of "The Message", he too surrendered intellectual honesty on the point. I spoke with him in email afterward, and he admitted that my position is correct (that Restoration does NOT return us to a state of slavery or return women to second-class status). Yet publicly, he took the opposite position.

I watched CA stand on Principle during the ordeal with Vanderboegh when Mike was lying about me. I watched CA challenge Mike to present evidence or STFU. When Mike refused to stop gratuitously attacking and smearing me, I watched CA lose his friendship on the points of Principle involved. That is why I was stunned when CA wrote publicly to support "The Message": Clarity. (Regarding Justin's erroneous assertions)

Add another group identity to AP’s point – that of Team Female (pronounced, as a Latina cop once taught me, “fee-MAH-lee”, as in “tamale”).

Do YOU want to tell Tam, Miss Violet, and other armed ladies that in the Glorious Restoration-To-Come, they and their kind will be subject to The Rule of Teh Menfolks?

How about the woman/women in YOUR life?

Let me know how that goes.

CA knows that is a misleading, incorrect and intellectually dishonest statement. He affirmed in email with me that my position is correct.

I noticed over at Bill Nye's place today CA disavowed the Tier system. Is it truth or "Sales & Marketing"?

I hope it is the former, and not the latter. But I do not know.

More than any single person the "Liberty Movement" needs honesty. When SHTF and people seek allies, we on the Liberty side of the equation already have the entire disinformation machine of the Left/Establishment against us. We can not afford to prove them correct by being caught in lies.

Conclusion: The tiers, the bins, the use of deceit in the name of "Sales & Marketing", and the abandonment of intellectual honesty by a few, on occassion, and the attempts to steer "The Message" are fundamental corruptions of the Community.

I do not care if you love or hate the Constitution, whether you support or oppose Restoration, whether you want to secede or not. What I care about is that we are honest about it. I will stand with anyone and everyone who wants Liberty...until the moment they are dishonest.

These acts surrender our most precious commodity as we move forward in the fight for Liberty: Legitimacy and Honesty in the eyes of those who will look upon us for an answer to the chaos that is imminent.

My sincere hope is that these lapses are but momentary.

Until I know for certain, we stand apart.



  1. Not absent, but watching from afar.

    Well said, and listening.

  2. Good post Sam.

    This has been so obvious that a 2nd grader could see things.

    No matter what someone will exploit. Just ask the folks of Jonestown.

    The control issue I saw first hand. CA happened to post one of mine. I went from 300 or so hits a day to well over 1200.

    A couple of days later back to normal.

    Fuck them in the neck with a long skinny knife.

    Stay strong Brother.

  3. Like I said before, each action has a learning experience to go with it...and I'm a quick study. I've been said I have a capacity to carry a grugde. Damn right, and I don't like being played.
    Some things are starting to make sense now.
    Miss Violent

  4. Thanks for putting into words what I thought but was not sure of. The idea of Restoration is to restore the INTENT of the founders. Not return to the days of the founding. The slavery issue was a compromise with the back-knowledge of slavery ending over a period of time. The same went for universal sufferage, the founders new it would be corrected over time. (NJ, for exsample started with woman voting) So, I stand for the restoration of the Constitution and the Republic as original INTENT!



  5. Being of only average intelligence and sometimes easily convinced of value in a new approach or line of reasoning, I have been fooled into initially accepting viewpoints that I have later determined to be wrong. Tom Baugh's was one of these. I feel certain it won't be the last, but I learn, adjust, and go on, trying my best to do what is best. Trying to understand and reason clearly. Always trying to adhere to honesty and truth, although my understanding of what is true may be flawed at times, until I know better.

    Some sources are known to be flawed and unacceptable at the start. While a man can have good things to offer, due to his experience and training, when he presents the totally immoral and completely depraved behavior of the Third Reich and the German government in general, pre-WWII and during that war, as acceptable because they also chose to fight Communism, I have to part ways. A good man who can deceive himself so thoroughly as to be able to apologize or attempt to explain away such insanely cruel and inhuman actions is obviously not thinking clearly, is morally questionable. I simply cannot associate with such moral turpitude.

    Others may have temporarily bought into Baugh's schemes - as I did for a short period of time when first reading "Starving the Monkeys" and some of his posts such as "When to Shoot the Colonels". It is easy to be seduced by what seems to be reasonable assertions. When you discover, as Sam and others have, that it is really about marketing a product rather than providing useful tools to the Liberty movement, then it is time to call "Foul", and separate from such deception.

    From all I have read on Pete's web site, I believe he is an honest man who will recant any connection with such as Baugh. I don't believe it is possible to be a true friend to a man - or woman - without giving them the right to screw up from time to time, and forgiving them for that. If they persist in beliefs on important issues that are unacceptable to me, I will have to turn away, but I _must_ give them the space to disagree and I _must_ give them the space to screw up, with the hope they will see the error of their ways. My friendship is cheap if I insist on perfection.

    At the same time, I cannot hold with those who think the murder of 6 million is acceptable because the murderers fought those who killed 60 million and continue to damage America. Yes, I will hate and fight the Communists in whatever way I am able, but I won't love the Nazi's simply because they betrayed their one-time Soviet allies and tried to conquer them as well as the rest of Europe, while enslaving and killing millions of human beings - men , women, and children - in the most horrible fashion imaginable.

    1. There is no single solution that will work for everyone, nor one activity that will "for sure " work now and in the future. The route to your objective may be a long and winding one, since the straight path is the obvious one, lined with slavers/diversions.

      The monkeys need starving, if only to shake their confidence that they are living the one-true-path. Baugh has developed some interesting interim techniques to use the monkey-system to minimize their ability to bleed patriots and free men dry while enslaving their families and unborn children with indoctrination day-camp. We won't go from mostly-serfs to free men in one step on a bright and shiny day, some day. It's going to be one annoying difficult step at a time, with discomfort, uncertainty, and our fellows questioning the use of each act.

      Some will "Go Galt", some will get themselves declared officially useless ("permanently disabled") and pull in a pile of juicy public benefits along with the monkeys, some will "work inside the system" by making a C-corporation and filing a lot of paperwork, others will lose hope. I don't see expatriation as a solution, since the United States is still the best place for a person to do well from nothing (not the greatest place if you already have 8 figures in income/assets), and is still "the new world" as far as thin population and rich in resources. We just have to fix our government, which is to say, "fix the minds of our people".

      In retrospect, the Soviets could have used a lot less help from the Roosevelt Administration. Having your enemies engaged in a hot war with each other is a glorious thing to watch. We have no reason to be guilty about the bad actions of other people. No love for Nazi's or Soviets, but taking advantage of human ingenuity wherever it might be made is good sense, and both Germany and Russia developed some excellent gear/techniques we would be foolish to ignore.

      BTW: "Concentration Camps" were an invention of our UK brothers for the fight against the South African Boer to get their gold fields. CC is merely a metaphor for where civilians die of rampant disease and starvation as a way to remove domestic/village support from their men in the field. Expect bigger and more Kamps, on the effective German model, with savior propaganda celebrating the Federal calories/bunks/heat for "the people".

      No conclusive answers here. Sorry.

  6. Thanks for the great post K. This really stated where I felt you were at, crystal clear. I think that echos what some of us were saying all along as well. I came to that conclusion in my mind a few years ago. We'll get there, keep building the boat...

  7. Thank you for this post!

    As a fence-sitter on the Patcoms I posted a comment in a discussion about this on another blog. The response literally knocked me back on my own side of the yard. Tom was part of that discussion. I decided at that time not to go to China's event and STFU about the Patcoms.

    If I detect anything other than Honesty & Integrity or any form of Coercion I am out. I would rather take my chances on my own. I can be led and I can take the reins but I will not follow without the leader earning his RESPECT.

    I do not know who Tom is however if he is on my blogroll when I find out he will be deleted for the sole reason of the hatred displayed in the reply to my post on another blog. I tolerate hatred only as well as liars and thieves.

    I imagine that I am not the only individual that decided not to attend a Patcom due to this type of behavior.

    Sam you may post this or not as it matters little. I blog for myself and post what I wish to share. I care not about HITS or anything that does not help me survive what is coming. I do appreciate the confirmation of my suspicions in this post and am grateful for the info.

    1. AlanD, Diogenes here, I am sorry that the actions at the Summit lead you to not show up at China's event. These two events were night and day, and you missed a wonderful event at China's. TL's Summit was a good event also, but there was some manuevering going on and I understand how that may have led others to believe PatCom's in general could be compromised.

      As other at China's event can tell you, there was no gaming going on. At one point I even stated that some of the discussion needed to cease as I considered myself outside of their loop of Security, being from another state. What I don't know, I can't talk about. My only role as "leadership" is trying to get more people to see the PatCom as a get together of like minded people and to try and grow the tribes that exist, but are not solid yet. Look to what Bill and the rest of us are attempting in Texas next month. None of this is about leadership but about growth. Again, the only reason some would call us leaders is the simple fact that we 'stepped off first', nothing more.
      Please, If you can, contact China, help put together another PatCom in that area, you won't be disappointed.

    2. Dio, I am fully aware of the first Patcom and have visited your blog often. I even donated to you and Craig for his event. You and I think to much alike in a lot of ways and I enjoy visiting often.

      In the above discussion on your blog I was basically told to STFU as I was not part of the group that was there. OK fine by me, no harm done. I do not need to associate with individuals that respond with hate.

      As for China's event I wish now that I had gone. You know where I live, you had my email, and I believe you probably drove within a few miles of my house to get to China's event.

      Alas the wife ended up having dental surgery that Saturday and I could not go anyway. It would have been good to meet you for coffee or a meal though.

    3. "
      In the above discussion on your blog I was basically told to STFU as I was not part of the group that was there. OK fine by me, no harm done. I do not need to associate with individuals that respond with hate."
      If that was how it felt to you, My apologies. If I am the one that came off that way towards you, even more so.
      I had hoped that you would be at China's event for the exact reasons you mention. As for 'planning' anything, the coincidences that led me to going didn't happen until that Friday morning and I hadn't planned on going at all. Long story and I would hope to share it someday, but don't want to clutter up Sams site.
      My main point is this. Please do not let any of this detract from what the PatComs have been accomplishing. Petty wars and power grabs are going to happen, we can't get around that, we are human.
      BUT, if we allow them (power plays) to get in the way of trying to build tribes, networks of support, whatever, NONE OF THIS MEANS ANYTHING ANYWAY. No Cliques to worry about, No III Congress in DC to poke the bear, Nothing.
      Just my .02

    4. Rep. Glen Bradley, who attended our NC PATCON, introduces anti-NDAA resolution in NC Legislature

      The BofA resolution came out of the PATCON also, not that either one has done much, but it's a start.

  8. "In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers . . . we are ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations."
    — Alexander Solzehnitsyn

    Thanks for the post.

    Honor and integrity are 2 qualities all men should seek. What good is our cause if we forsake these?

    Elitist sitting in dark corners pulling strings trying to control information, isn't that what we fight against?

    Smartest guys in the room...who makes that decision anyway? That's what I thought.

    Thanks again for turning the lights on and exposing the dark corners.


  9. Mr.K,

    Is that wbo was running his mouth at Mercer for at least 45 minutes non-stop ? Baugh ?

    I had determined from that verbal exercise of his that he was a gas bag. Thats when I decided to leave. I had met you, TL, and many other fine folks. I had accomplished what I'd set out to do. Sadly, the wind bag did not provide me a good ending to my Mercer visit.


    1. Yes sir, that's the guy.

      Did you get your patches ok?


    2. Mr. K,

      Yes, received the patches you sent. The extra items were appreciated. Thank you very much.

      DAN III

  10. I decided at that time not to go to China's event and STFU about the Patcoms.

    Big mistake, Alan.

  11. Sam,

    I must admit that with this post I am inclined to reconsider my initial impression of you. As I've stated on Dio's blog, my introduction to the 3%er world was through Sipsey Street, and unfortunately, as i've expressed to others privately, the only posts I'd seen from you were little better than rabid attacks. I figured there was more to it, and given my limited time, I don't regularly read more than a handful of blogs. In the end, I was left with a pretty sour taste in my mouth that several others have told me, given my limited exposure, wasn't wholly accurate.
    It is nice to see they were correct as this post was well thought out, precise, and extremely informative about issues I'd seen ripples from but had missed the source impact. It also sheds light on some of the other comments and what I thought were merely personality quirks in certain posters.

    I will apologize for being a little too quick to believe certain things and will attempt to keep a more open mind in the future.


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